by Josh the Cyborg » Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:33 am
chesya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:26 pm
Josh the Cyborg wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:03 am
Seeing as America is modeled after the Roman Republic and a little bit off some writing in the book of Samuel(1&2), I just wonder when will United States of America the Republic fall and America the Empire/Neo Rome rise. This was not a subtle thing back then the founding fathers even used Roman names as Pen names when writing.
It seems to me that the US was modelled on the ideology of the more leftest groups, such as the Levellers in the English Revolution. These include assemblies based on a relative broad qualification suffrage, distributed power, no personification of the state in a monarchy or similar institution, no standing armies. These stand in direct opposition to the institutions of 560 years the Roman Empire after the Gracchi. During most of this time electors were confined to a privileged group within the patrician caste, power was high centralised in Rome and later Constantinople, then both, the Dictators, Consuls, Priceps, then Emporers personified the state as did the legions, forming a seamless bridge between the army and Roman identity and state. Witness in Tacitus Augustus' despair at the loss of the Varian legions. The Legions were him as they were the Roman citizenry.
The successor status of the USA to the Roman Republic/Empire lies in rhetoric and not in anything substantive. The classical education of the founding fathers is equally rooted in the Greek state craft of Aristotle as that of Cicero and Seneca, who despite their excellent work on governance were marginal to the heart of Roman political power. Capitol hill only superficially resembles the dome of St Peters. Close examination revealed it to be more a copy of St Pauls in London.
The part of America that won the war of independence was essentially ethnic English, the group that had dominated all the centres of power along the Eastern seaboard since the founding of Jamestown. George III intended to treat all of his subjects equally, whether they be English, Scots, Scots-Irish or native American. Indeed, one of the motives for the revolution was the 1763 royal proclamation, a line drawn across the Applachian and Alleghenies summits to protect native Americans from English settler encroachment. It's thought that up to quarter of the population of the 13 states mainly comprised of Scots and Scots-Irish upped sticks and founded Upper Canada, later Ontario. Ontarian English still has a Scots lilt.
Both the Constitution and even modern governance owes more to Englishman, Tom Paine, than any Roman influence. The Roman with greatest practical influence on the USA was Cincinnatus, the Roman general who after successfully leading the army, refused the crown and went back to his farm.
Um how did I say anything that goes against that? I don’t want an Emperor, I prefer to continue governing myself, as it is written in the book of Samuel, that every man(mankind) is meant to be their own “king” and high priest. Also there were things that US government took from certain Native American tribes governing system, not that many though. One of which was the Supreme Court, difference the part of the Native tribe they took that from had their head of state exclusively made up of female chieftains, in that particular tribe. I forget it’s name. Also I knew that only Patricians could Vote, and the lower classes were only brought in when they needed a tie breaker. I was specifically referring to the way we conduct our legal system, the number of senate seats we have based off population and land. Also specifically how this was done in the short(compared to the empire) days of the Republic.
Also I personally think history constantly repeats and people refuse to learn from history, and I believe we’re in for a world wide collapse regardless of who is charge, I think the mess we’re in is to big to fix and even China will collapse into the same form advanced techno feudal states the rest of the world will fall into, maybe they’ll even be what signals the collapse, The only country I could see surviving the coming economic and social collapse is Russia. I don’t see this collapse being as bad as Rome’s was for the west, but, I do see no winners in coming times.
I know I have given off the air of right winger(actually it’s been on purpose to throw people off of my true political beliefs). I actually am a hard line moderate that refuses to budge either right or left with human nature and economics being the only concrete truths I hold to, because those and religion are the only things that remain constant and the same throughout every set of human historical record we have. This is why I scoff or chuckle when I here people talk about creating a new economic system, we have used the same system across 100’s different cultures for 8000 years.
[quote=chesya post_id=14632 time=1607977607 user_id=183]
[quote="Josh the Cyborg" post_id=13175 time=1599876234 user_id=504]
Seeing as America is modeled after the Roman Republic and a little bit off some writing in the book of Samuel(1&2), I just wonder when will United States of America the Republic fall and America the Empire/Neo Rome rise. This was not a subtle thing back then the founding fathers even used Roman names as Pen names when writing.
[/quote]
It seems to me that the US was modelled on the ideology of the more leftest groups, such as the Levellers in the English Revolution. These include assemblies based on a relative broad qualification suffrage, distributed power, no personification of the state in a monarchy or similar institution, no standing armies. These stand in direct opposition to the institutions of 560 years the Roman Empire after the Gracchi. During most of this time electors were confined to a privileged group within the patrician caste, power was high centralised in Rome and later Constantinople, then both, the Dictators, Consuls, Priceps, then Emporers personified the state as did the legions, forming a seamless bridge between the army and Roman identity and state. Witness in Tacitus Augustus' despair at the loss of the Varian legions. The Legions were him as they were the Roman citizenry.
The successor status of the USA to the Roman Republic/Empire lies in rhetoric and not in anything substantive. The classical education of the founding fathers is equally rooted in the Greek state craft of Aristotle as that of Cicero and Seneca, who despite their excellent work on governance were marginal to the heart of Roman political power. Capitol hill only superficially resembles the dome of St Peters. Close examination revealed it to be more a copy of St Pauls in London.
The part of America that won the war of independence was essentially ethnic English, the group that had dominated all the centres of power along the Eastern seaboard since the founding of Jamestown. George III intended to treat all of his subjects equally, whether they be English, Scots, Scots-Irish or native American. Indeed, one of the motives for the revolution was the 1763 royal proclamation, a line drawn across the Applachian and Alleghenies summits to protect native Americans from English settler encroachment. It's thought that up to quarter of the population of the 13 states mainly comprised of Scots and Scots-Irish upped sticks and founded Upper Canada, later Ontario. Ontarian English still has a Scots lilt.
Both the Constitution and even modern governance owes more to Englishman, Tom Paine, than any Roman influence. The Roman with greatest practical influence on the USA was Cincinnatus, the Roman general who after successfully leading the army, refused the crown and went back to his farm.
[/quote]
Um how did I say anything that goes against that? I don’t want an Emperor, I prefer to continue governing myself, as it is written in the book of Samuel, that every man(mankind) is meant to be their own “king” and high priest. Also there were things that US government took from certain Native American tribes governing system, not that many though. One of which was the Supreme Court, difference the part of the Native tribe they took that from had their head of state exclusively made up of female chieftains, in that particular tribe. I forget it’s name. Also I knew that only Patricians could Vote, and the lower classes were only brought in when they needed a tie breaker. I was specifically referring to the way we conduct our legal system, the number of senate seats we have based off population and land. Also specifically how this was done in the short(compared to the empire) days of the Republic.
Also I personally think history constantly repeats and people refuse to learn from history, and I believe we’re in for a world wide collapse regardless of who is charge, I think the mess we’re in is to big to fix and even China will collapse into the same form advanced techno feudal states the rest of the world will fall into, maybe they’ll even be what signals the collapse, The only country I could see surviving the coming economic and social collapse is Russia. I don’t see this collapse being as bad as Rome’s was for the west, but, I do see no winners in coming times.
I know I have given off the air of right winger(actually it’s been on purpose to throw people off of my true political beliefs). I actually am a hard line moderate that refuses to budge either right or left with human nature and economics being the only concrete truths I hold to, because those and religion are the only things that remain constant and the same throughout every set of human historical record we have. This is why I scoff or chuckle when I here people talk about creating a new economic system, we have used the same system across 100’s different cultures for 8000 years.