The Other Shelf from OHH

[eddiegiantman]

OHH has mostly worked on GTS stuff but lately, he’s been adding in SW as well for awhile, his recent work is The Other Shelf, a spinoff of On The Shelf which also has a lot of SW in it. Recently, he’s posting the origin story of Fiona, a former party girl now occupying a pet cage. Yes, it also has SM/GTS but hearing their stories and catching up on their work, I saw that SW folk don’t help pop up the numbers like GTS folk.

Give it and his work some love and let folks know we people who love tiny ladies we will come if he makes more.

https://www.deviantart.com/openhighhat/ ... ther-shelf

[Little Sally]

Why promote someone else's site, when you should be promoting the sort of things that you can do.

Be inspired by what you can do for yourself first, my old friend.

[eddiegiantman]

Why promote someone else's site, when you should be promoting the sort of things that you can do.

Be inspired by what you can do for yourself first, my old friend.

So you're telling us as a community should NOT come out for when GTS artists actually do SW work?

[Little Sally]

Why promote someone else's site, when you should be promoting the sort of things that you can do.

Be inspired by what you can do for yourself first, my old friend.

So you're telling us as a community should NOT come out for when GTS artists actually do SW work?

No I'm not telling "a community" anything of the sort, and if you (as an individual) want to promote some render artist because you like their stuff that's fine. Though from what I can see it looks pretty run of the mill stuff to me, but if it floats your boat then that's ok.

My comment was intended to encourage you, to be more creative yourself.

[eddiegiantman]

Why promote someone else's site, when you should be promoting the sort of things that you can do.

Be inspired by what you can do for yourself first, my old friend.

So you're telling us as a community should NOT come out for when GTS artists actually do SW work?

No I'm not telling "a community" anything of the sort, and if you (as an individual) want to promote some render artist because you like their stuff that's fine. Though from what I can see it looks pretty run of the mill stuff to me, but if it floats your boat then that's ok.

My comment was intended to encourage you, to be more creative yourself.

I just wanted to help. Also I am working on renders, collages and a story or 2 right now, I just don't post them here. The vibes here have kinda pushed me back again.

Hence why that comment made me a bit tilted.

[Kooplan]

What a weird comment to start the thread off with...

Anyways, the original "On The Shelf" was pretty interesting, but I didn't know there was a spin-off going on. So, thanks for sharing!

[Hand-Holder]

Why promote someone else's site, when you should be promoting the sort of things that you can do.

Be inspired by what you can do for yourself first, my old friend.

Sharing new stuff for everyone to enjoy in a Forum is the most normal and expected thing in here

I share new stuff from others and hope I can keep finding other people showing me sites and third party works

Stop being annoying, don´t like don´t eat...

[Little Sally]

My comment was intended to encourage you, to be more creative yourself.

I just wanted to help. Also I am working on renders, collages and a story or 2 right now, I just don't post them here. The vibes here have kinda pushed me back again.

Hence why that comment made me a bit tilted.

Yeah, I got what you were meaning by promoting the artist (as in giving a heads up about some new SW content from someone who normally does GTS), but I don't have this "us and them" attitude regarding GTS and SW, so I guess that's unimportant to me.

And I thought maybe there are better things to do than plug DA artists with their own established followings, and was just reminding you that you're an artist too! So I was hoping you might take that as a hint. And I'm sorry if it made you feel "tilted" (that's another expression I had to google lol!) that wasn't my intention.

Anyway good to hear that you are trying out some new stuff, and maybe when you're feeling less sensitive about things, we might even get to see something!

Ps. And I know where you're coming from about posting work on here, as anything can be viewed whether you're a member here or not.

[Little Sally]

Why promote someone else's site, when you should be promoting the sort of things that you can do.

Be inspired by what you can do for yourself first, my old friend.

Sharing new stuff for everyone to enjoy in a Forum is the most normal and expected thing in here

I share new stuff from others and hope I can keep finding other people showing me sites and third party works

Stop being annoying, don´t like don´t eat...

Lol! Well if I annoyed you, then I must be doing something right Carlos!

Talk about pot kettle black, haha! (hope that makes sense in Portugal)

[Hand-Holder]

Why promote someone else's site, when you should be promoting the sort of things that you can do.

Be inspired by what you can do for yourself first, my old friend.

Sharing new stuff for everyone to enjoy in a Forum is the most normal and expected thing in here

I share new stuff from others and hope I can keep finding other people showing me sites and third party works

Stop being annoying, don´t like don´t eat...

Lol! Well if I annoyed you, then I must be doing something right Carlos!

Talk about pot kettle black, haha! (hope that makes sense in Portugal)

I don´t care what you think or say on me, lol, I just came here to help the person who posted in the first place understand not everyone is against these posts and He is welcome to keep posting, all else is just a waste of time, what you think, what Santa Clauss thinks, ZERO CONTRIBUTION TO MY HAPINESS OR NOT, LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Little Sally]

I don´t care what you think or say on me, lol, I just came here to help the person who posted in the first place understand not everyone is against these posts and He is welcome to keep posting, all else is just a waste of time, what you think, what Santa Clauss thinks, ZERO CONTRIBUTION TO MY HAPINESS OR NOT, LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Oh, for goodness sake grow up Carlos! (but you are good fun to wind up)

If you can't understand what my intentions were from the replies I have given above to Eddie, then it's tough shit. And I guess we'll have to put it down to a cultural misunderstanding of (English) language.

Anyway, Portugal had a good result against Turkey in the Euros, so that should make you happier. I just want Cristiano to score, then I'll be happier too!

[Hand-Holder]

I don´t care what you think or say on me, lol, I just came here to help the person who posted in the first place understand not everyone is against these posts and He is welcome to keep posting, all else is just a waste of time, what you think, what Santa Clauss thinks, ZERO CONTRIBUTION TO MY HAPINESS OR NOT, LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Oh, for goodness sake grow up Carlos! (but you are good fun to wind up)

If you can't understand what my intentions were from the replies I have given above to Eddie, then it's tough shit. And I guess we'll have to put it down to a cultural misunderstanding of (English) language.

Anyway, Portugal had a good result against Turkey in the Euros, so that should make you happier. I just want Cristiano to score, then I'll be happier too!

Sorry, no time for personal discussions, let´s all enjoy SW the most we can, while our short lives offer us that beautiful chance

[Raso719]

It's threads like this that have convinced me to stop trying to engage with the community and to stop writing.
It's bad enough I feel like I get so much shit whenever i try to share my own personal interests. It's bad enough even when you're an artist or writer who doesn't post frequently and no one gives a shit because you aren't in with the in crowd. But what makes it all so much worse is I can't tell if there is a complete lack of self awareness from the community or if it's a deliberate (conscious or otherwise) attempt to enforce a narrow band of what's acceptable. And it's fucking tiring.

I had just started to try and engage more with the community and anytime I open my mouth about my interests I've been met with near unanimous mockery and snickering. I have to accept that everyone else's size ranges or intersecting interest are normal or default while defending my own. I don't even write about the size ranges I prefer anymore because I know I'll have to defend my own FANTASY. IT'S ALL FUCKING FAKE! NO ONE REALY SHRINKS OR GROWS FYI! These were supposed to be safe spaces i could feel welcomed and aside form very niche corners by and large I've seldom felt appreciated.
I try to celebrate all aspects of this fetish because it's a very vulnerable thing to come together as a community over it. I may give feet and oder people more shit than they deserve (which is none, btw. They deserve no shit) and I've realized only recently how that may come across.

Eddie, delete the link. These people can find their own content. Look, she's child sized at some point so that will piss someone off. OHH also does a lot of micro content and that's objectively silly because wHaT's ThE pOiNt? HoW dO yOu InTeRaCt? I don’t know, maybe listen and watch and learn and celebrate instead of treating anything outside of such a narrow band as wierd or silly WHEN THE WHOLE FUCKING IDEA OF SHRINKING IS ALREADY SILLY!

I thought as adults I would be past this playground bullshit. But you know what? It's worse as an adult when you're been made out to be the outsider, especially when you were one as a child. Because it reinforces that the children weren't just being children, they were being RIGHT. From the very beginning until the day I die I'll always be that outsider. So I'm done being part of this community. It's not a space I feel safe and welcomed in. It hasn't been for awhile and I don't know why it took me so long to realize.

[eddiegiantman]

It's threads like this that have convinced me to stop trying to engage with the community and to stop writing.
It's bad enough I feel like I get so much shit whenever i try to share my own personal interests. It's bad enough even when you're an artist or writer who doesn't post frequently and no one gives a shit because you aren't in with the in crowd. But what makes it all so much worse is I can't tell if there is a complete lack of self awareness from the community or if it's a deliberate (conscious or otherwise) attempt to enforce a narrow band of what's acceptable. And it's fucking tiring.

I had just started to try and engage more with the community and anytime I open my mouth about my interests I've been met with near unanimous mockery and snickering. I have to accept that everyone else's size ranges or intersecting interest are normal or default while defending my own. I don't even write about the size ranges I prefer anymore because I know I'll have to defend my own FANTASY. IT'S ALL FUCKING FAKE! NO ONE REALY SHRINKS OR GROWS FYI! These were supposed to be safe spaces i could feel welcomed and aside form very niche corners by and large I've seldom felt appreciated.
I try to celebrate all aspects of this fetish because it's a very vulnerable thing to come together as a community over it. I may give feet and oder people more shit than they deserve (which is none, btw. They deserve no shit) and I've realized only recently how that may come across.

Eddie, delete the link. These people can find their own content. Look, she's child sized at some point so that will piss someone off. OHH also does a lot of micro content and that's objectively silly because wHaT's ThE pOiNt? HoW dO yOu InTeRaCt? I don’t know, maybe listen and watch and learn and celebrate instead of treating anything outside of such a narrow band as wierd or silly WHEN THE WHOLE FUCKING IDEA OF SHRINKING IS ALREADY SILLY!

I thought as adults I would be past this playground bullshit. But you know what? It's worse as an adult when you're been made out to be the outsider, especially when you were one as a child. Because it reinforces that the children weren't just being children, they were being RIGHT. From the very beginning until the day I die I'll always be that outsider. So I'm done being part of this community. It's not a space I feel safe and welcomed in. It hasn't been for awhile and I don't know why it took me so long to realize.

Raso stay with us man.

[DocRick]

It's threads like this that have convinced me to stop trying to engage with the community and to stop writing.

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************

So I'm done being part of this community. It's not a space I feel safe and welcomed in. It hasn't been for awhile and I don't know why it took me so long to realize.

As someone who also has felt like an outsider (in school I didn't fit in with any of the "groups" i.e. the jocks, the pretty people, the brainics, the druggies, the motoheads, etc., but I think you're taking current societal norm personal. We have more ways to communicate today and we communicate less than ever.

There's many artists and art formats on this forum that I don't care for. So what? That's just me. I don't comment on them or even view them if I know I'm not gonna like it. As far as responses, hell, look at my personal thread. 300,000 views in 15 months since I started it and I'll bet there are less than 50 comments from other forum members. But I get 1,000 views a day, so I guess people like my work. It seems the most "vocal" members of the forum only like, well, certain aspects of SW and don't care for the gentle side and some only like one size. You can't please everyone so try to please yourself. Sure, I appreciate when someone makes a positive comment on one of my collages, but for some reason, it seems 99% of the members don't like to make any and there are a few "Karens" that like to cause trouble. Just don't confuse critique for criticism. Most comments I read from the more outspoken few, are positive or give useful advice.

I have some "side" stuff going on for a few members of the community that I don't post publicly because it feels like it's personal, and sometimes it is, but often it's just something I don't feel the "99%" are interested in. Kinda like RP, but not. One lady (I know this is the Net, but from their writing style, I do believe they are ladies ) One I communicate with likes SWs being dolls, another likes romance, another likes hard core stuff, one liked stuff that I am not really into, but it was fun to create something new and they liked it, so that was that. Some I reached out to after they made an interesting comment on one of my posts and others initiated contact.

To each their own. I do this stuff to have fun and be creative. Someone likes it, great. If someone doesn't, that fine too.

[Raso719]

It's threads like this that have convinced me to stop trying to engage with the community and to stop writing.

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************

So I'm done being part of this community. It's not a space I feel safe and welcomed in. It hasn't been for awhile and I don't know why it took me so long to realize.

As someone who also has felt like an outsider (in school I didn't fit in with any of the "groups" i.e. the jocks, the pretty people, the brainics, the druggies, the motoheads, etc., but I think you're taking current societal norm personal. We have more ways to communicate today and we communicate less than ever.

There's many artists and art formats on this forum that I don't care for. So what? That's just me. I don't comment on them or even view them if I know I'm not gonna like it. As far as responses, hell, look at my personal thread. 300,000 views in 15 months since I started it and I'll bet there are less than 50 comments from other forum members. But I get 1,000 views a day, so I guess people like my work. It seems the most "vocal" members of the forum only like, well, certain aspects of SW and don't care for the gentle side and some only like one size. You can't please everyone so try to please yourself. Sure, I appreciate when someone makes a positive comment on one of my collages, but for some reason, it seems 99% of the members don't like to make any and there are a few "Karens" that like to cause trouble. Just don't confuse critique for criticism. Most comments I read from the more outspoken few, are positive or give useful advice.

I have some "side" stuff going on for a few members of the community that I don't post publicly because it feels like it's personal, and sometimes it is, but often it's just something I don't feel the "99%" are interested in. Kinda like RP, but not. One lady (I know this is the Net, but from their writing style, I do believe they are ladies ) One I communicate with likes SWs being dolls, another likes romance, another likes hard core stuff, one liked stuff that I am not really into, but it was fun to create something new and they liked it, so that was that. Some I reached out to after they made an interesting comment on one of my posts and others initiated contact.

To each their own. I do this stuff to have fun and be creative. Someone likes it, great. If someone doesn't, that fine too.

Hey that's great and I'm happy for you. But I made a statement, I didn't ask for anyone's opinion on how I should or shouldn't feel.

[Traumatized llama]

.....But I get 1,000 views a day, so I guess people like my work....

I don't want to burst a bubble now, but the bigger a thread gets, the more often it is searched by search engines, bots, spam bots and other non-human things, and if you yourself call up the thread 50 times a day, you already have your own calls that you can deduct.

[Little Sally]

It's threads like this that have convinced me to stop trying to engage with the community and to stop writing.
It's bad enough I feel like I get so much shit whenever i try to share my own personal interests. It's bad enough even when you're an artist or writer who doesn't post frequently and no one gives a shit because you aren't in with the in crowd. But what makes it all so much worse is I can't tell if there is a complete lack of self awareness from the community or if it's a deliberate (conscious or otherwise) attempt to enforce a narrow band of what's acceptable. And it's fucking tiring... etc
I thought as adults I would be past this playground bullshit. But you know what? It's worse as an adult when you're been made out to be the outsider, especially when you were one as a child. Because it reinforces that the children weren't just being children, they were being RIGHT. From the very beginning until the day I die I'll always be that outsider. So I'm done being part of this community. It's not a space I feel safe and welcomed in. It hasn't been for awhile and I don't know why it took me so long to realize.

Hey look, if the comments and banter I engaged in above in this thread has upset you so badly, then I sincerely apologise. It just isn't worth letting someone's views or comments spoil your enjoyment to that extent. And yes you're right in reminding us that it's all a fricking fantasy at the end of the day, and whatever opinions I might express are only mine, and nobody has to give a damn what I think.

I don't in all honesty go out to upset anyone deliberately, but when whatever I've said isn't understood the way I meant it to be, I have to respond and try and explain as I did with Eddie. And apart from the bit of banter I had with Hand-Holder (who can take it and dish it out with a bit of humour), that's all I was trying to do. Again, I don't take this fetish seriously enough to let it get to me personally, and neither should you. It just isn't worth getting upset about.

As for your size preferences, just keep doing what pleases you and the hell with anyone else. It's not like you're being picked on as being an outsider, because there's loads of people who like extremely tiny women. But in case you haven't noticed, although I'm sure you must have, size preferences are the main devisive factor in this whole (rather ridiculous) shrunken woman fantasy. And that's why I don't go with this "sw community" idea, because we're just a bunch of individuals with our own particular weird ideas of how things work for us.

And that's another can of worms again!

Anyway don't be down about things. Life's too short as it is!

[Raso719]

It's threads like this that have convinced me to stop trying to engage with the community and to stop writing.
It's bad enough I feel like I get so much shit whenever i try to share my own personal interests. It's bad enough even when you're an artist or writer who doesn't post frequently and no one gives a shit because you aren't in with the in crowd. But what makes it all so much worse is I can't tell if there is a complete lack of self awareness from the community or if it's a deliberate (conscious or otherwise) attempt to enforce a narrow band of what's acceptable. And it's fucking tiring... etc
I thought as adults I would be past this playground bullshit. But you know what? It's worse as an adult when you're been made out to be the outsider, especially when you were one as a child. Because it reinforces that the children weren't just being children, they were being RIGHT. From the very beginning until the day I die I'll always be that outsider. So I'm done being part of this community. It's not a space I feel safe and welcomed in. It hasn't been for awhile and I don't know why it took me so long to realize.

Hey look, if the comments and banter I engaged in above in this thread has upset you so badly, then I sincerely apologise. It just isn't worth letting someone's views or comments spoil your enjoyment to that extent. And yes you're right in reminding us that it's all a fricking fantasy at the end of the day, and whatever opinions I might express are only mine, and nobody has to give a damn what I think.

I don't in all honesty go out to upset anyone deliberately, but when whatever I've said isn't understood the way I meant it to be, I have to respond and try and explain as I did with Eddie. And apart from the bit of banter I had with Hand-Holder (who can take it and dish it out with a bit of humour), that's all I was trying to do. Again, I don't take this fetish seriously enough to let it get to me personally, and neither should you. It just isn't worth getting upset about.

As for your size preferences, just keep doing what pleases you and the hell with anyone else. It's not like you're being picked on as being an outsider, because there's loads of people who like extremely tiny women. But in case you haven't noticed, although I'm sure you must have, size preferences are the main devisive factor in this whole (rather ridiculous) shrunken woman fantasy. And that's why I don't go with this "sw community" idea, because we're just a bunch of individuals with our own particular weird ideas of how things work for us.

And that's another can of worms again!

Anyway don't be down about things. Life's too short as it is!

I'm glad you recognize you've been a part of this. And again, I'm happy you don't take any of this seriously and even thrilled you don't consider any of this community to be a community, because is sure as shit doesn't feel like it sometimes.

But also don't need people telling me how I should feel. Especially not someone who has engaged in the aforementioned activities that have made.md feel unwelcomed, btw.

It's not about size. It's about making myself vulnerable and sharing with the community a part of myself other share freely and constantly being reminded it's under appreciated. It's watching people celebrate each other and their interests and then trying to do the same and consistently being made to feel like it was a mistake to put myself out there. It's the language and tone used in response to anytime I've come forward in one of these public spaces to try and celebrate what I enjoy. I'm fine with people not being into what I am, that's not the problem. That's NEVER been the problem. It's how there's always this chorus of chuckle heads who have to use very clear language to very explicitly make it clear there's nothing to celebrate.

There's a thread about gorilla beastiality for fucks sake an people either ignore it or celebrate it. And I won't even get into the racist connotations of the gorilla rapist/kidnappers trope. The fact it's an animal at face value should be enough for people to get a snide remark or two out of someone. But 100 years ago a giant furry puppet grabbed a blonde chick so I guess that makes it nostalgic or okay.

Unlike a 1mm tall girl sleeping in a Lego brick, no what is the point of that? You all know what the point of that is. You don't ask because you're genuinely interested. You ask to inform that the point is irrelevant.

But the size thing is only a part of what's been eating at me. Its just the most recent greavence on my mind, so don't get hung up on that one issue.

[DocRick]

.....But I get 1,000 views a day, so I guess people like my work....

I don't want to burst a bubble now, but the bigger a thread gets, the more often it is searched by search engines, bots, spam bots and other non-human things, and if you yourself call up the thread 50 times a day, you already have your own calls that you can deduct.

Well, I don't "call" on my thread unless I'm adding a post or someone commented and yes, I see the bots every time I open this forum, but why then are there large threads that have been active a lot longer than mine that have a much, much smaller number of views? When you see the "who is viewing...." at the bottom of the page, there can be hundreds of guests and forum members online, so I don't imagine there are that many bots compared to humans. And you have to have a bubble to be concerned whether or not it bursts. I don't have one. I'm just here to admire other collager's and writer's work and to have fun with mine.

[Little Sally]

I'm glad you recognize you've been a part of this. And again, I'm happy you don't take any of this seriously and even thrilled you don't consider any of this community to be a community, because is sure as shit doesn't feel like it sometimes.

Yes of course I recognise being a part of making you unhappy, which in my defence I never intended. But it was maybe another example of me opening my mouth without thinking, and expressing yourself in text can be confusing and unforgiving at times. As regards this SW community thing, I've never regarded it as a community in the accepted sense where everyone bands together for a common cause, because there's far too much diversity of taste and too many opposing interests. But we could be here all day discussing that. It might work for some to think of it as a cosy community, but in reality, I don't think it is.

That's not to say we can't be empathetic toward others with different views, but it's sometimes a case of reminding oneself about the feelings of others.

But also don't need people telling me how I should feel. Especially not someone who has engaged in the aforementioned activities that have made.md feel unwelcomed, btw.

If that's aimed at me again, I can only apologise (again). I hope not though.

It's not about size. It's about making myself vulnerable and sharing with the community a part of myself other share freely and constantly being reminded it's under appreciated. It's watching people celebrate each other and their interests and then trying to do the same and consistently being made to feel like it was a mistake to put myself out there. It's the language and tone used in response to anytime I've come forward in one of these public spaces to try and celebrate what I enjoy. I'm fine with people not being into what I am, that's not the problem. That's NEVER been the problem. It's how there's always this chorus of chuckle heads who have to use very clear language to very explicitly make it clear there's nothing to celebrate.

Yes, I see where you're coming from I think. It can't be easy when you're devoted to something as strongly as you are, and feel like you're being mocked for it. I might have been guilty of that in another thread when expressing my own size preferences, which I did without thinking it might be hurtful. But half the trouble with these online pastimes is, is that we don't really know anyone in person or how they might be feeling inside, or what real life issues they might have. So it's sometimes easy to screw things up with a throwaway comment.

So, maybe try not to take to heart everything you read or see expressed on these pages, as being a slight on your own fantasies. Because there's always a bunch of stuff that constantly has me biting my tongue too. But that's another story.

There's a thread about gorilla beastiality for fucks sake an people either ignore it or celebrate it. And I won't even get into the racist connotations of the gorilla rapist/kidnappers trope. The fact it's an animal at face value should be enough for people to get a snide remark or two out of someone. But 100 years ago a giant furry puppet grabbed a blonde chick so I guess that makes it nostalgic or okay.

Unlike a 1mm tall girl sleeping in a Lego brick, no what is the point of that? You all know what the point of that is. You don't ask because you're genuinely interested. You ask to inform that the point is irrelevant.

But the size thing is only a part of what's been eating at me. Its just the most recent greavence on my mind, so don't get hung up on that one issue.

That would be the "Girls and Gorillas" thread I presume? Well I guess it could be construed in the way you describe, but it's really nothing more than another art thread devoted mainly to the King Kong trope of yesteryear. In other words, a bit of harmless fun.

I guess we should leave it there for now. But if you feel the need to vent some more.. go for it! (and there's always the PM option of course as well).

[jeffrey-dallas]

That would be the "Girls and Gorillas" thread I presume? Well I guess it could be construed in the way you describe, but it's really nothing more than another art thread devoted mainly to the King Kong trope of yesteryear. In other words, a bit of harmless fun.

KK was the first real exposure to handholds and giant things carrying around little ladies. I assure you that I don't wish to see intercourse between a blonde babe and a 50-foot hirsute boyfriend. It's just for the (relatively tiny) ladies. You even have a couple of Land of the Giants episodes and a Dr. Shrinker episode with 'big' simians so it's difficult to separate all of it. But it is just for fun.

On a related note, the costume designer Anthea Sylbert has passed away. Among her many films was Jessica Lange's New York dress for the 1976 Kong. It doesn't say but I assume she also designed the sacrifice costume, which I like a lot.
https://filmcostumecollection.omeka.net/items/show/1342

[Little Sally]

KK was the first real exposure to handholds and giant things carrying around little ladies. I assure you that I don't wish to see intercourse between a blonde babe and a 50-foot hirsute boyfriend. It's just for the (relatively tiny) ladies. You even have a couple of Land of the Giants episodes and a Dr. Shrinker episode with 'big' simians so it's difficult to separate all of it. But it is just for fun.

Absolutely right Jeffrey, and I think it's fair to say that many of us were inspired by King Kong (and reruns of LOTG) in our early days, and for the reasons you mention. It's certainly never involved thoughts of sexual exploitation for me, that's for sure.

There's always plenty of that on here, without pointing a finger at a good art thread.

Ps. Sorry to hear of the loss you mentioned. She was certainly a talented lady.