Gumroad Update

[kira123]

So bad news is, there's a new update going on where NSFW content is going to be banned. Because f**k credit card companies. On the bright side, at least it's not leaning towards... 'The Woke Side' like DeviantArt did. But still, this is really getting ridiculous. It's the Pixiv situation all over again (only Pixiv still has NSFW stuff slipping through the cracks, even behind the filters).

So I guess we're down to going into Pixiv Fanbox, SubscribeStar, and Ko-fi. If none of those work, there's other options. If not, we're just going to have to cut our losses and make our own site.

[Prof Sai]

[pokonota]

Pixiv is not an option. Like someone mentioned, it's really insular and only wants Japanese creators. This is a problem with any Japanese service too.

Ko-Fi is not an option. From their "Using the NSFW tag" page:

https://help.ko-fi.com/hc/en-us/article ... e-NSFW-Tag
= Not allowed on Ko-fi (regardless of NSFW tag)
Sexualised nudity

Making your own site may not be an option either, since the payment processor problem will apply to you all the same.
Using crypto for payments is unlikely to be a solution either

[kira123]

Pixiv is not an option. Like someone mentioned, it's really insular and only wants Japanese creators. This is a problem with any Japanese service too.

Ko-Fi is not an option. From their "Using the NSFW tag" page:

https://help.ko-fi.com/hc/en-us/article ... e-NSFW-Tag
= Not allowed on Ko-fi (regardless of NSFW tag)
Sexualised nudity

Making your own site may not be an option either, since the payment processor problem will apply to you all the same.
Using crypto for payments is unlikely to be a solution either

So then there's nothing anyone can do, but to just give up. All options and businesses are dead now.

[pokonota]

So then there's nothing anyone can do, but to just give up. All options and businesses are dead now.

I hear itchio is an option, and JustForFans is directly addressing the Gumroad NSFW ban:
https://twitter.com/JustForFansSite/sta ... 3508848910

Idk either of these two options tho. As I mentioned, when I tried opening the JustForFans page, it told me that my US state had laws requiring age verification process (have to submit id or something) just to open the page. I could do this, but it really creeps me out

[Little Sally]

So bad news is, there's a new update going on where NSFW content is going to be banned. Because f**k credit card companies. On the bright side, at least it's not leaning towards... 'The Woke Side' like DeviantArt did. But still, this is really getting ridiculous. It's the Pixiv situation all over again (only Pixiv still has NSFW stuff slipping through the cracks, even behind the filters).

So I guess we're down to going into Pixiv Fanbox, SubscribeStar, and Ko-fi. If none of those work, there's other options. If not, we're just going to have to cut our losses and make our own site.

Assuming it's not just about selling your work, why not use Deviant Art to share it around?

If you use DA's storage facility you can hide your work from public view, and if you want to share something then just move it to your Stash which is also not on public view.

Then it's just a case of sharing a link to a work in your Stash with someone (or to as many people as you like), without raising any issues with DA.

Who in theory at least, won't know about it.

[eddiegiantman]

So then there's nothing anyone can do, but to just give up. All options and businesses are dead now.

I hear itchio is an option, and JustForFans is directly addressing the Gumroad NSFW ban:
https://twitter.com/JustForFansSite/sta ... 3508848910

Idk either of these two options tho. As I mentioned, when I tried opening the JustForFans page, it told me that my US state had laws requiring age verification process (have to submit id or something) just to open the page. I could do this, but it really creeps me out

I assume because you live in TX or it's a precaution. Just yeah you might have to.

[pokonota]

Pixiv is not an option. Like someone mentioned, it's really insular and only wants Japanese creators. This is a problem with any Japanese service too.

Ko-Fi is not an option. From their "Using the NSFW tag" page:

https://help.ko-fi.com/hc/en-us/article ... e-NSFW-Tag
= Not allowed on Ko-fi (regardless of NSFW tag)
Sexualised nudity

Making your own site may not be an option either, since the payment processor problem will apply to you all the same.
Using crypto for payments is unlikely to be a solution either

So then there's nothing anyone can do, but to just give up. All options and businesses are dead now.

If we make our own website, I see only two problems, but they're kinda big:

a) Payments: we can use crypto for payments, and I think Bitcoin and Ethereum are established and valuable enough that artists could be fine with earning in such cryptos. But that could be "user friction", as most ppl don't know how to use crypto, but maybe through Coinbase and such it can be done. Crypto could become popular soon because of all these stupid laws and corps that are making it impossible to run adult content sites. Like they say, necessity is the mother of invention. So I think it could be good. If we need extra payment privacy we could look into the Monero crypto even.

b) Law compliance. This is the big one. I think there are laws we'd have to comply with depending on where we host the site. In some US states, you have to hire identity verification services for every visitor, and this would make it impossible, since each check costs money and would turn away visitors to begin with. Do not know if we can get rid of this problem by hosting it outside the USA. But still, we'd need a lawyer friend to help us be sure we're not going to get trouble running an adult content site. The laws around adult content are shifting and I think this is a major pressure point

[kira123]

Pixiv is not an option. Like someone mentioned, it's really insular and only wants Japanese creators. This is a problem with any Japanese service too.

Ko-Fi is not an option. From their "Using the NSFW tag" page:

https://help.ko-fi.com/hc/en-us/article ... e-NSFW-Tag
= Not allowed on Ko-fi (regardless of NSFW tag)
Sexualised nudity

Making your own site may not be an option either, since the payment processor problem will apply to you all the same.
Using crypto for payments is unlikely to be a solution either

So then there's nothing anyone can do, but to just give up. All options and businesses are dead now.

If we make our own website, I see only two problems, but they're kinda big:

a) Payments: we can use crypto for payments, and I think Bitcoin and Ethereum are established and valuable enough that artists could be fine with earning in such cryptos. But that could be "user friction", as most ppl don't know how to use crypto, but maybe through Coinbase and such it can be done. Crypto could become popular soon because of all these stupid laws and corps that are making it impossible to run adult content sites. Like they say, necessity is the mother of invention. So I think it could be good. If we need extra payment privacy we could look into the Monero crypto even.

b) Law compliance. This is the big one. I think there are laws we'd have to comply with depending on where we host the site. In some US states, you have to hire identity verification services for every visitor, and this would make it impossible, since each check costs money and would turn away visitors to begin with. Do not know if we can get rid of this problem by hosting it outside the USA. But still, we'd need a lawyer friend to help us be sure we're not going to get trouble running an adult content site. The laws around adult content are shifting and I think this is a major pressure point

Hmm. Well, I rather not use crypto. But I see what you mean about the law compliance thing. I never thought about that.

[Prof Sai]

Maybe some alternate economic model is called for. Paying for individual works is hard. Maybe sponsorship of artists who then give their work out for free? Commissions?

[Little Sally]

Maybe some alternate economic model is called for. Paying for individual works is hard. Maybe sponsorship of artists who then give their work out for free? Commissions?

I've already suggested an idea (above in this thread)

Or maybe stop trying to be naughty boys who think they can make money from NSFW content, and do some work that will be accepted by their normal selling outlets. Times and attitudes move on!

Personally, I wouldn't pay to see anything created by amateur content providers, or subscribe to patreons. Because if you're a genuine artist you just want to share it, and be happy it's recognised by those who appreciate it.

[pokonota]

Little Sally, I think your suggestion to just stop making SW content is not conducive to anything.

Even if you were ok with just "sfw sw", you should read the terms of use of Gumroad and Ko-Fi: even if the characters are clothed, if it can be construed as fetish or titilation it's not allowed on the platforms

So basically go re-watch 80s cartoons shrinking clips and Arrietty, because that's all you're saying should exist

Your other suggestion to just do everything for free is just I'm not gonna dignify that with a reply

[eddiegiantman]

Little Sally, I think your suggestion to just stop making SW content is not conducive to anything.

Even if you were ok with just "sfw sw", you should read the terms of use of Gumroad and Ko-Fi: even if the characters are clothed, if it can be construed as fetish or titillation it's not allowed on the platforms

So basically go re-watch 80s cartoons shrinking clips and Arrietty, because that's all you're saying should exist

Your other suggestion to just do everything for free is just I'm not gonna dignify that with a reply

People don't realize this is a side gig and we are sometimes striving to survive. The free stuff is for people to hook you in for stuff later on.

Have you tried JustForFans, itch.io, comission.io or Deviantart, poko?

[pokonota]

Thanks, Eddiegiantman. You've been a true friend throughout. Right now, I'm somehow hoping my store will survive the purge. It's still up and it looks like ppl can still pay with cc. Maybe the CEO is an idiot and misspoke, because nsfw sales have never been handled with Paypal or Stripe, just cc. So maybe this was all a sick ploy to get a firesale and rake in quick profits deceiving people. Or there will be a reversal in the ban. Idk.

Rn, I sent some dms to a friend who is a bit of a techie and seeing if he can build me a website to put my store at. Idk if I will be safe at itchio and other sites

[Prof Sai]

Your other suggestion to just do everything for free is just I'm not gonna dignify that with a reply.

Yea, I thought so as well. By definition amatur/professional is defined by how you get paid, so in that world no professionals would exist, and no one would ever develop professional skills because they would have to devote most of their time to real jobs to survive.

[Little Sally]

Little Sally, I think your suggestion to just stop making SW content is not conducive to anything.

I didn't suggest you did that. Read more carefully in future.

Even if you were ok with just "sfw sw", you should read the terms of use of Gumroad and Ko-Fi: even if the characters are clothed, if it can be construed as fetish or titilation it's not allowed on the platforms

So ok, making content that is more SFW/SW is more like what I meant. But if you say even that isn't going to be acceptable on an online selling platform, then it's going to be difficult. Unfortunately I've nothing to suggest since monetary gain is your goal, other than exploring patreon and doing commissions as Sai said.

Failing that, maybe adapt your style and content to something that will be accepted on Gumroad etc, which will at least give you a chance to sell something.

So basically go re-watch 80s cartoons shrinking clips and Arrietty, because that's all you're saying should exist

Again, I didn't say anything of the sort.

And just for the record, I've no interest in animated cartoon depictions of shrinking women, or manga or similar stuff that passes as SW art. Same goes for clips from online games, and most of the other video content that gets posted.

Your other suggestion to just do everything for free is just I'm not gonna dignify that with a reply

I wasn't suggesting you choose to do everything for free, that's your own choice. But I simply said that I don't personally choose to pay to see stuff, and that's my own choice.

But if you can make a go of what you do eventually, then good luck to you.

People don't realize this is a side gig and we are sometimes striving to survive. The free stuff is for people to hook you in for stuff later on.

Eddie, I don't know your personal circumstances (nor do you know mine), but I can assure you we are all working hard and striving to survive one way or another. Sorry, I don't buy this 'struggling artist' perspective, the way it's used about an online fetish.

Your other suggestion to just do everything for free is just I'm not gonna dignify that with a reply.

Yea, I thought so as well. By definition amatur/professional is defined by how you get paid, so in that world no professionals would exist, and no one would ever develop professional skills because they would have to devote most of their time to real jobs to survive.

Well, that'd be me putting paid to many a glittering movie career then lol!

"Darn! I'm sorry I didn't support you when you were living in a bed-sit on the bad side of town, but I really loved your latest blockbuster!"

Sorry, I'm just cynical enough to think that doesn't really count in our own context. But if someone from these circles gets to remake a mainstream live action version of "Land of The Giants", I'll be happy to be proved wrong!

We shouldn't be holding our breath though.

[eddiegiantman]

People don't realize this is a side gig and we are sometimes striving to survive. The free stuff is for people to hook you in for stuff later on.

Eddie, I don't know your personal circumstances (nor do you know mine), but I can assure you we are all working hard and striving to survive one way or another. Sorry, I don't buy this 'struggling artist' perspective, the way it's used about an online fetish.

Sometimes, people do struggle hence they pay for the artist themselves and they work as the middle man or are seeking employment and this is what fills that hole at the moment.

I had a lot size kink friends who were blind sided and had to close shop or look elsewhere. People do struggle and these people happen to be good what they do. In a way, it's basically sex work, they supply what floats their boat and are good at it and people pay to make it happen. Sadly those glory days of the SW Portal are gone so not everything can be free.

And I read back at the comments and Gumroad has basically killed even the SFW work, those who even did clean stuff had to move up shop because it counted as the fetish stuff.

These Payment Processors would say your peril stuff would be considered to be taken down, that's the issue at hand here.

[Little Sally]

Sometimes, people do struggle hence they pay for the artist themselves and they work as the middle man or are seeking employment and this is what fills that hole at the moment.

I had a lot size kink friends who were blind sided and had to close shop or look elsewhere. People do struggle and these people happen to be good what they do. In a way, it's basically sex work, they supply what floats their boat and are good at it and people pay to make it happen. Sadly those glory days of the SW Portal are gone so not everything can be free.

And I read back at the comments and Gumroad has basically killed even the SFW work, those who even did clean stuff had to move up shop because it counted as the fetish stuff.

These Payment Processors would say your peril stuff would be considered to be taken down, that's the issue at hand here.

I hear you Eddie, but if you're in this sw fetish to get money for what you do, then it's unlikely to be a big earner for anyone. Unless you're a long established producer (and I keep hearing reference to Jesse Junior, who I gather is one such provider). Plus I don't think this sw hobby has the numbers it once had in the old days, so that's another problem.

There's no easy answer is there. If online sales outlets are distancing themselves from certain products, there's not a lot you can do about it. But I'd go down the DA road if I was wanting some pocket money (which I'm not), and create a patreon and do commissions.

[I am Nobody]

Avoid Deviantart too. They are beginning a adult purge soon with most NSFW content. Unless its LGPQ ex or fat women. Also their payment processing is screwed up. They will double charge you, not credit you after taking your money, charge you weeks early, charge you after you cancel, etc and good luck getting a hold of anybody. Also, they have a no refunds policy even if they screw up, which is a lot. Just avoid core, don't give them your card, you cannot delete it, and keep it a free account.

[kira123]

Avoid Deviantart too. They are beginning a adult purge soon with most NSFW content. Unless its LGPQ ex or fat women. Also their payment processing is screwed up. They will double charge you, not credit you after taking your money, charge you weeks early, charge you after you cancel, etc and good luck getting a hold of anybody. Also, they have a no refunds policy even if they screw up, which is a lot. Just avoid core, don't give them your card, you cannot delete it, and keep it a free account.

Sadly, it's not that easy. I agree, the payment thing is janked. But people use the Core to get to change names, profiles, and add more data for stash and sub-galleries,etc. Not to mention protect them from art thieves, which let's face it, doesn't stop anybody from using their AI art features for doing that or sell the stolen art off in another site as NFTs. So DA pretty much gets you in a lock, and the stuff you need that SHOULD'VE stayed free, are all behind a stupid paywall. It's freakin' ridiculous.